Since I've started blogging, I've received several comments and questions about why I have not considered going vegetarian. I'm sorry for not answering them directly. Its been something that's been on my mind (so thank you for raising the topic) and I have to say I don't have any good excuse as to why I have not gone vegetarian.
From my own point of view, there are two major issues related to vegetarianism - animal rights and the environment.
Animal Rights
Firstly, animal rights. Animal rights is something I have to say I can't quite get my head around. Having seen poverty and human exploitation first hand, I can't seem to get grasp the concept of animal rights beyond the very basics. For a long time, I have viewed animal rights as a luxury that developed nations can adequately address but is very low in the priority list for developing countries. Its a view that has coloured my thinking that we should have the right to eat meat. (Yes, I know that thinking is flawed but its one that is terribly ingrained into my psyche).
Having said that, I acknowledge that the majority of traditional animal farming practices are cruel. In Australia, sheep are regularly mulesed. (Note that New Zealand have developed a strain of merino where they no longer need to practise mulesing.) Cows, farmed fish and chickens are fed hormones and endure brutal conditions until they are slaughtered.
It is for this reason that I try to buy organic beef and pork, organic or NZ sheep that have not been mulesed, free-range chicken, and wild fish (not endangered, of course). Organic or "more ethical" farms providing meat tend to be smaller and ensure better living conditions for animals.
Another reason why I avoid factory farms is that they also contribute to the cycle of poverty in those countries they operate in due to the massive amounts of waste and inefficient use of the land (plus they tend to push out the smaller community farms that the poor communities rely on). Which leads me to the second issue - impact on the environment.
Environment
For those who may not know, by eating meat, one is having a HUGE impact on the environment. (See this article from New Scientist). Again, it is factory farms that tend to be the biggest culprit. In addition, it is the factory farms that tend to sell to exporters, thereby increasing the carbon footprint of the meats they sell.
On a related note, exporting live animals for slaughter is also a HUGE issue in regards to animal rights as well as the environment. In one export year, some 60,000 dead sheep (1-2% of mortality rate) are dumped into the sea. (edited sentence - THANK YOU NIKKI for pointing out my incorrect statement! Have fixed it now) (See this website about this appalling issue.)
Anyway, so I guess in short, I can say that animal welfare and the impact of factory farming of livestock on the environment does rate some consideration in my consumption criteria. It is the reason why I buy organic meats whenever I can and avoid factory farmed animals. Menu planning has helped me buy organic meats (as well as assist me in eating less meats). Having said that, I acknowledge that going fully vegetarian would mean that I am totally exploitation-free from this perspective. I'm afraid though, that at this point in my life, I am not strong enough (mentally) to cope with a big change in our diet. I know, in part, that I am not dedicated enough of my willpower in this issue - mainly because for me, avoiding human exploitation in my consumption already does take a tremendous amount of time and energy (not to mention the time and energy spent trying to convince my husband that this is the way to go).
Consumption, I have learnt, is not a black and white issue of learning what to buy and what to not buy. It also involves a whole heap of things that feed into the construction of identity and also participation in society. Perhaps one day, I *will* have the energy to reduce my meat intake to none but at this stage, I am just not ready yet. In the meantime, for those wishing to explore this path further may find the information links I've put up above helpful. I wish you well in your journey.
21 comments:
I think you're absolutely right, people in countries where *people* are terribly exploited don't have the luxury of worrying about animal exploitation.
I think, also, that the whole diet thing is not nearly as clear cut as vegetarian/vegan activists would have you believe. I agree absolutely that factory farming is not good for the environment - or good for the animals. But animals grown on small, mixed farms are a vital part of a farm's ecosystem, adding valuable nutrients to the soil, and a recent Japanese study found that grass-fed beef, for example, is actually carbon-neutral. I would question whether it is better for the environment to eat tofu, made from soybeans grown in Asia, highly processed and then transported half-way across the world wrapped in plastic than it is to eat locally produced grass fed beef, transported only a couple of hundred kilometres at most.
We are lucky in Australia, as most of our meat is still pasture fed, and there's not a lot of factory farming (aside from chickens and pork, and it's relatively easy to get free range versions of both of them, even at a supermarket).
As for the idea that it's immoral for us to eat meat - I wonder if vegetarians also think it's immoral for a lion or a cat or a wolf to eat meat? People forget that we are actually animals too. And like all animals, in order to be optimally healthy, we need to eat the diet we evolved to eat. All evidence points to that including as much meat as we could get our hands on - and fatty meat for preference - along with whatever fruit, vegetables, nuts and eggs we could forage, and not much else.
Nature is red in tooth and claw - I believe that animals should be able to behave like animals while they are alive - chickens should get to run around and scratch in the dirt, eat bugs etc and not be cooped up and have their beaks cut off - but as long as they have a chickeny existence while they are alive I see no moral reason not to kill them and eat them - just as other omniverous or carniverous animals do.
Muelsing is for the same medical end (medical safety) as circumcision of male humans when you get right down to it and certainly no more serious physically. Vegans who get insufficient B12 in their diet whether in increased insurance costs for treatment or mortality, or increasing the costs of federal medical programs should pay their own way for their cult diet costs. Problem is they don't and society inherits the medical and psychiatric costs resulting from their choices made. The ideal solution would be for those who equate every cockroach as valuable as every human to -- socialize with cockroaches and quit propagandizing the rest of us to follow their cult related choices and practices. As personal opinion, those out to eradicate all domestic animals (farm and companion animals) such as PETA and particularly HSUS now seeking global level control over forced changes to human diets should be perceived as of extreme threat to humankind. We definately need to be exploring their funding of and collusion with politicians fronting for the vested financial interests of multinational corporations. You're very lucky in Australia to have mostly pasture fed meat. Here in the US, if we can mange to locate meat free from added hormones, antibiotics, and chemicals such as the multiple preservatives as well as other chemical additives including those added or used in packaging--it's beyond affordable for ordinary people.
Thank you Rebekka for posting your thoughts. I have not heard about the Japanese study, so thank you for letting me know of it.
I agree with you that the import of vegetables (or anything really) from overseas has a large carbon footprint. Where possible it is better to buy local - provided it is free from human exploitation. I don't think I can ever place environmental considerations above the immediate suffering of people. Again, my thinking is very much a result of my own experiences.
I'm also not sure if I could ever understand the morality perspective. Having said that, I am a huge proponent of people having the right to express and exercise their morals (provided it doesn't hurt others) and if there are people out there who feel vegetarianism/veganism is a reflection of their morals, then who am I to argue against that? I think that they are incredibly strong to express their morals in such a way. However, their morals are not mine and while I can not understand it, I respect their right to express it.
In terms of the "isms" surrounding the whole issue, I think continued dialogue and tolerance is the way forward. If it wasn't for this dialogue, I would never have made the move to buy non-factory farmed meats.
@ Anonymous.
I have to say I am finding it hard to follow your arguments, so please feel free to correct me if I had gotten it wrong.
As an aside, I also hope that you are anonymous more for the convenience factor of not having to sign in, rather than because you are uncomfortable about the potential backlash arising from your post.
Anyway, firstly with mulesing. I have to say that I do not agree with the comparison of mulesing to male circumcision. Only a very very small amount of males with a rare condition actually *need* circumcision, whilst sheep (from my point of view) *do* need to be mulesed. From a report tabled at the NSW Parliament, they stated that 80% of sheep would die of flystrike if they are are un-mulesed.
The cruelty of mulesing lies not in the fact of the actual cut (though that is cruel too), but more that *we* have bred sheep in such a way that they need to be mulesed. Prior to the globalisation of the wool industry, sheep did not grow that extra skin. *We* were the ones who demanded that extra skin so we can have that extra wool. It is time now to support all the people who have worked to reverse that breeding.
Secondly, I have to say I don't consider vegan or vegetarian a "cult diet". There are a number of diets out there and I think labelling them in such negative terms, to me, states that they are dangerous in some way. Diet - whether vegan or "mainstream" - can result in illnesses if one's food intake displays an over-consumption of one type of vitamins/minerals etc and nothing of others. An example of that are the people who regularly eat fatty foods, resulting in obesity and heart disease. They are not regarded as having a "cult diet" but more that they need education and assistance about food intakes. The same can be said of vegans who do not take in the right amount of foods within their boundaries (and we all have boundaries).
My understanding of PETA is that they are against the use of animals in factory farms, for scientific experiments, clothing and the entertainment industry. I do not see them as the extremist organisation that your post has implied. Having said that, I acknowledge that for such a large organisation, there is no doubt a spectrum of members - some of whom may be on the extremist side. I think it is normal for large organisations (and societies) to have this. The thing though is that it is the spectrum that keeps things in balance overall and we have to view others' opinions through this light.
Finally, I am sad to hear that you believe non-factory farmed meats are beyond the reach of ordinary people in your country. I think many people in my country would think the same (indeed, I was one of them). I have found that through menu-planning, and consciously turning away from over-consumption of other things I am able to afford it.
Anyway, thank you for raising thought-provoking points. While I do not agree with you, I do respect your right to raise them. I wish you well in your journey.
Hi E :) fak...
I believe a 1-2% mortality rate means that's how many die, not how many survive? If only 1 in 100 animals survived the trip, it wouldn't be viable and no producer would do it.
As for the cost issue - organic meat is well beyond our means at present, even free-range would be a stretch (it's not available in my supermarket anyway) and we are on a comfortable wage for our industry, and don't have a mortgage!
Cheers!
Nikki :)
Interesting thoughts Eilleen.
On the issue of mulesing, I grew up on a merino/wheat farm. I'd never even heard of mulesing til the blow-up with PETA, by which time I'd already gone vegetarian for my own ethical reasons. I can promise you that we never EVER did that to our sheep - crutching was usually enough to prevent fly-blown sheep. I remember bad years when dad had us pick through the crutchings to collect the small amount of clean wool from the dags, so we could sell it. I worry that people who know only what they see in the media will think that all Merino sheep are mulesed, when in fact they are not.
I hope that the climate change issues we are now facing in Australia will prompt changes both to mainstream diet, and to what we farm here. Dad started alternating wheat crops with chick peas in response to his own land management concerns long before chick peas were fashionable, and had great difficulty selling his crop. Shortly before he finished farming, he was looking at switching from sheep to goats as they're better suited to our dry conditions.
As a vegetarian, I don't mind other people choosing to eat meat (including my own children). I don't talk to people about vegetarianism unless they ask me. But I think people need to understand where their meat comes from, how it gets onto their plate, and make an informed choice to consume something that requires more resources to produce and the death of another living being.
And for "Anonymous": I want non-vegetarians to stop trying to convert me to their way of thinking. I made a choice to not eat meat after 25 years of knowing exactly where my food came from. Perhaps it's time to just respect my informed choice and stop seeing it as a threat to your own morality. Attacks on vegetarianism, as opposed to the open and honest debate Eilleen has posted on her blog, say more about the insecure morality of the attacker than they do about vegetarians.
Hmm... Forgive me, but I don't think you can call your blog "consuming without exploiting" when eating meat and other animal products inherently involves exploitation...
I commend you for your efforts on a lot of other fronts, and I think you're doing more than most people and thinking about the issues, which is good, but your arguments about why you still eat meat don't hold a lot of water.
Rebekka: Your statement that humans NEED meat to be healthy are misguided and uninformed. Numerous studies have shown that vegans and vegetarians are not nearly as likely to be overweight, have high cholesterol, heart problems and cancer, to name a few.
Anonymous: Your entire rant was completely unintelligible and just plain wrong.
Lastly, the issues of human rights and animal rights and care do not have to be mutually exclusive. Creating a more compassionate world as it pertains to animals is never going to negatively impact our compassion for humans.
Good luck on your journey!
I for one don't think you need to justify your meat eating Eileen. I'm a vegetarian but live in a house full of meat eaters. Luckily our beef and chicken is sourced from the next door neighbours farm so I know the animals have been well treated.
I wonder if any hardcore vegetarians or animal rights people do as much as you do with regards to human rights? I don't agree with animal cruelty at all, but surely cruelty towards humans is far worse. Standing up for what you believe in is a wonderful thing to do and I admire you greatly Eileen. Love reading your blog.
I read a blog of a woman in Nigeria, and she actually wrote a post about the concept of animal exploitation. You were right on, on that point.
On my quest to live a more simple life, I learned much about how the animals have been given growth hormones and even what they have been fed...that was it for me. I knew that the solution for my family was not to go vegetarian...but to control the food we put in us.
By moving to a farm, and slowly acquiring livestock and chickens we will be able to fill our freezer each year. In fact one lesson which we will be learning next weekend(we home school) is how to butcher a pig. By helping in the butchering we will be given 300lbs of meat! All free range organic pigs, taken care of by one simple farm family.
That goes with my beliefs. I believe that God has given us dominion over the animals. Originally man did not eat meat, and won't again someday. But until then we must be accountable. I am disgusted by the way even the chickens are treated. Clipping beaks so they can barely eat, stacked one on top off eachother...all for the maximizing of the money.
Oh well, great post, and fyi, to my embarrassment I am a non meat eater. How silly is that? I do not refer to myself as a vegetarian, because I cook the meat for my entire family, and sometimes sell homemade burritos in town. I just don't like the smell.(Maybe I will have a tuna sandwich...one every ten years!!!)
Jennifer
doublenickelfarm.blogspot.com
We are vegetarian. Our reasons are varied in our family.
DH is Buddhist.
DD1 doesn't like the taste/texture
Myself, my own personal ethics.
I can't look at meat without thinking of the being it once was.
I don't exploit my garden (I compost/renew and mulch there) and I choose not to exploit animals to feed myself when there are so many other choices out there.
I also don't believe that you can force people to adopt your choices for their own.
Rebekka, it is possible to buy locally made tofu, stored in water without plastic. Some of us are even experimenting growing our own soybeans ;)
Anon, pffft!
Eilleen, you are living as ethically as you are able to at this present moment. I wouldn't be beating myself up about not being a vegetarian right now. Perhaps one day soon you will be able to make the switch.
http://eatatdixiebelles.blogspot.com/search/label/Eat%20Less%20Meat This might interest you too? I will be back to read more of your blog soon, looks great!
Thankyou for your thoughfulness Eileen; I enjoy reading your posts b/c they are so thought provoking and b/c they speak to me of your own journey. It sounds like you have turned these issues over in your mind a lot.
I haven't consciously tried to draw out my ethics towards meat eating before, but I respect that other people have beliefs that I can not understand. I do believe that we all have our own journey and must make choices for ourselves. Information helps us make better choices, but we still need to choose.
I grew up as a fifth generation beef grower in Aus and learnt how to care for many animals as a child. There was always an unspoken sense of gratefulness for the meat we grew and consumed, and we learnt early that animals needed respect and kindness. This sense of gratitude is something that seems to be lost in factory farming and when people no longer have that connection to the land. As a child I felt part of a great cycle of Life - the endless grassy plains, the dust and rain, the birth and death of the animals we lived with. Ultimately it was a financial venture and the money from our cattle bought us shoes, medicine, books; but it was so much more than a money-making exercise. As a child I had a strong sense of the gifts and the harshness of the land; a real sense of the fragility of life. I'm not quite drawing these thoughts together am I? ;) But that enduring sense of being one of the many animals that live on earth, is there for me, and that consuming needs to involve consciousness and respect.
"My understanding of PETA is that they are against the use of animals in factory farms, for scientific experiments, clothing and the entertainment industry."
While I can understand the ethical stnace of being against factory farms, I think that being against using animals in scientific experiments IS an extreme position - I am against things like testing cosmetics on animals, because I think it's unnecessary, but testing drugs in animal models is essential, the sorts of testing that are going on currently in stem-cell research and genetic modification that could cure some of the most horrendous diseases that affect people - being opposed to that is an extreme, and to my mind ridiculous, position. And because PETA takes this position, I would also categorise them as an extremist organisation.
I have also read a great deal of medical and scientific literature on diet - none of the studies that puport to show a vegetarian diet is healthier have a particularly sound basis. When you consider that less than 3% of people who eat meat eat the recommended daily intake of fruit and vegetables, a study that shows a vegetarian diet is healthier is probably just showing that a diet that contains decent amounts of vegetable matter is healthier.
And the so-called science behind saturated fat being bad for you is completely misleading - there is a good explanation of some of this here.
Besides which, it doesn't make logical sense that the diet we evolved eating would be "bad" for us - it's like suggesting that eating grass is unhealthy for a cow.
I have no problem with anyone chosing to be vegetarian or vegan on their own personal moral grounds. I do object to people following a vegan diet while pregnant/breastfeeding - you can have a border-line B12 deficiency as a mother, and it can cause permanent, irreversable brain damage (and even death) in your breastfed infant. There are documented cases, which I can dig out if anyone is interested.
That said, I do object to people relying on so-called 'science reporting' in the popular media to *justify* their vegetarianism on any grounds other than moral grounds - twisting the facts to fit a conclusion.
Great post Eileen. I particularly respect your honesty.
In a recent comment when I asked you whether or not you had considered the issue of animal exploitation in your consumption criteria I was not intending to criticise or judge you. I was simply surprised to see a recipe for meat on your blog after seeing the sidebar statement that you seek to consume without exploitation. I don't agree with our often anthropocentric view of the world that places humans outside of the animal kingdom and differentiates the exploitation of non-human animals. However, I do respect people's right to determine their own consumption criteria - particularly when it is mindful.
I think that it is unnecessarily defensive of some of the commenters here to assume for the sake of their own strawperson arguments that vegetarians or vegans do nothing else for human rights or the environment. While my family maintains a vegan diet, we like to call ourselves ecotarians - meaning that we try to make all of our consumption decisions based on how they might impact on human & animals rights, the environment, and society in general. We buy only locally produced seasonal produce (and mostly organic), we shop at a food co-op to get our dry goods in bulk with little packaging. We only use fair trade, organic chocolate, coffee, tea etc. Even our tofu is locally produced. Naturally our diet, like everyone else's involves compromises. Farming clears land and inevitably kills some resident animals. Sometimes we eat things that are out of season or imported. Some of our clothes are produced in factories that may not have the best labour standards. We make no claims on being perfect. We simply try to be mindful in our consumption and to keep ourselves informed.
You seem to be doing exactly the same thing and I applaud you for that.
"I have no problem with anyone chosing to be vegetarian or vegan on their own personal moral grounds. I do object to people following a vegan diet while pregnant/breastfeeding - you can have a border-line B12 deficiency as a mother, and it can cause permanent, irreversable brain damage (and even death) in your breastfed infant. There are documented cases, which I can dig out if anyone is interested."
Ever heard of B12 supplements? For goodness sake. My daughter is perfectly healthy and my B12 levels are high (yes I have them tested).
You can also get twice yearly B12 injections.
Thank you all for participating in this discussion. I have found it very useful and also inspiring to see so many considered points of view.
I have hoped in posting this that I would share my point of view and to answer the many many questions I have received regarding my meat eating habits. I did worry that it would come across as defensive or whatever. Please do not think that at any point in time I have felt judged or criticised.
Anyway, regardless of how it came across, I am glad that I have posted it because there have been such wonderful thoughts on this issue.
I think, primarily, its clarified my own position that until now I have not fully articulated. That is, as a result of my own experiences and where I have come from, I do subscribe to the belief that eating meat by itself is not exploitation (and I do acknowledge that as a result of other people's experiences, *they* would consider the act itself an exploitation).
For me, the exploitation issue will always be concentrating on human exploitation. To me the problem of human exploitation is so big in my mind that it is hard for me to concentrate or spend energy on other forms of exploitation.
I am against factory farming because I believe that it is a form of social control of consumption, and that it *also* has negative impacts on the environment.
While I know that the sustainable farming of animals may still be against the principles of many many people, to me I can not feel it is exploitation.
I particularly related to what you said Em, about feeling a gratefulness for the food we eat. In thinking of this issue and researching how animals are treated, I have to say that I have developed that gratefulness.
For those who may not know, I am also a Buddhist. However, I am one of many many Buddhists who do eat meat. My Buddhist beliefs tell me that I inherit the energy or the essence of what I eat. In that, factory farming is not the kind of essence that I want to inherit. However, from the stand-point of believing in my right to eat meat, I can see the benefits of eating meat sourced from sustainable, organic farms.
First and foremost, this whole blog is about consumerism and its effects on social and individual happiness and its contribution to social and individual unhappiness (exploitation). It is from this standpoint that I have presented my own views on this topic.
Anyway, thank you again for taking the time to contribute to this discussion. I have found that it has enriched my knowledge of not only the issues, but also enriched my knowledge of the spectrum of views that are out there.
Dear Eilleen
If people choose to consume meat or indeed any other food then they should be aware of where it comes from and how it exploits animals, the environment or people in the manufacture or transportation.
The reality is that consumers do have a choice. Anonymous points out cost but there are also significant disadvantages for consumers trying to get the appropriate information.
For example, Rebekka thinks that soy is grown for tofu. In fact, most of the world's tofu is produced in Brazil for cattle feed. Therefore, Rebekka, you could always cut out the middle bovine and just eat the tofu!
A really good resource about the world's food system and movements that are trying to achieve rights for animals, workers and the environment is stufforstarved.org. Jayant Patel, the site's author, has also written a very informative book, of the same name.
BTW - I love your blog - Congratulations.
Cheers
Melissa
Great post, thank you for your thoughts on the issue Eilleen.
If you or any of the other commenters are ever truly interested in understanding the morality perspective of being veg*n then look no further than the brilliant documentary 'Earthlings' narrated by Joaquin Phoenix. You can watch it online - google it.
I applaud you for being so mindful of your own consumerism and I love reading your blog!
my MAIN reasons for being vegetarian is that i believe it to be healthier,
I believe eating meat is unneccessary:)
My mother grew up in an English country village and ate the diet that had been typical of her countryfolk for generations.
Which was: roast on Sundays (ever heard of the Sunday Roast?), then the offcuts were eaten through the week.
There was no refrigeration (electricity only made it to her village in the 1960s, yes really!), so meat couldn't be kept for long.
For lunch, sandwiches were often bread and dripping. Sounds real appealing, NOT. And breakfasts were often eggs, but no bacon. Bacon was a treat, which her Dad got far more often than she and her brother did, because it was so expensive!
Mum was not, and has never been, a vegetarian.
I'm mentioning this, because when you compare the amount of animal products she consumed growing up to what most meat-eaters typically consume today, the difference is striking.
From a practical point, the vast amount of meat we're consuming as a species increasing rapidly in numbers (another big issue there!) is causing massive deforestation, raping of our seas, and an extinction event we can now proudly hail the Anthropocene.
Go us!
One of your commenters argues that eating as much meat as we can get our hands on is our natural diet.
Sure, in a prehistoric society where the average life expectancy was 20-something - and that was if you were lucky enough to survive past infancy!
For me, I'd prefer to live past my twenties. I'm guessing most people would.
Just because that was what prehistoric people may have lived on because they had no choice, it does not logically follow that a diet based on animal products is what humans *do best on*, and live longest on.
For me, I want to know what the optimum diet is. That means, what we humans do BEST on, what we live longest on, what were healthiest overall on, what we're cleverest on.
Scientific evidence overall points extremely heavily towards basing a diet heavily on fruits and vegetables for optimum health. The evidence is absolutely overwhelming.
Whether a person chooses to add animal products or not is a personal choice.
But the evidence strongly suggests that animal foods - if included in our diets - should be included sparingly. Some, like various processed and salted meats, should not be added at all.
I don't think anyone has the right to tell Eilleen what dietary path she must follow. I'm certainly not going to!
But it probably makes sense - for the benefit of our species as well as many others - that ethically-minded people avoid endangered species, as well as livestock species, such as cows, known to produce large amounts of greenhouse gases (methane).
I'm sure Eilleen knows this. Most people do. In Australia, for example, there has been a strong move away from beef towards kangaroo.
And "meatless Monday" is becoming increasingly common around the world, as people seek to reduce their meat intake to more balanced levels, more similar to intakes generations ago around the world (Australia and NZ are notable exceptions to this, meat intakes were high since white takeover for various reasons to do with inability to grow traditional European crops, and accessibility of pasture).
I think vegetarianism is the right choice - for me. And for my kids, until the are old enough to decide for themselves.
But I also think choosing food that is local, fresh, organic, sustainably and gently produced are all important considerations - perhaps more important than the "meat" question.
In the end, it's pretty simple, really. "Eat food. Mostly plants." Now - didn't someone say that before somewhere? :-)
Thanks for reading this, if you did! And thank you to Eileen for yet another great post and topic! :-)
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